Staff reader Thomas Nath speaks over the phone with NER 47.2 contributor Leath Tonino about constellations, gossip ladders, and why you should write down quotes when you read. With a gossip ladder, McPhee can pack seven or eight quotes into a small space, like half a page. Is there a way that you saw the form of the piece speaking to its content, the theme of self-renunciation? LT: I don’t think that quote answers anything or ends anything. Leath Tonino is a freelance writer and the author of two essay collections, most recently The West Will Swallow You (Trinity University Press, 2019).